Finance Friday: How to Retire in Your 40s by Building Multiple Income Streams

Mindy:
Welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast Finance Friday Edition, where we interview Joe Granieri and talk about profitable side hustles and creating a path to retire early. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen. And with me today is my CFP co-host, Kyle Mast.

Kyle:
Good to be here, Mindy, and looking forward to the conversation.

Mindy:
Kyle and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you’re starting.

Kyle:
Whether you want to retire early, travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own personal training business, be a police officer, we’ll help you reach your financial goals, get the money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams.

Mindy:
All right, Kyle. I am so excited to talk to Joe today. He has what we call really good problems because he is trying to decide between not just one great choice, not two great choices, but three pretty amazing choices that he has to figure out which one he wants to focus his time on. I had a great time talking to him. What did you think?

Kyle:
Yeah. I think he’s got a lot of potential. This guy is young, and he has really set himself up well in a lot of different ways. And like you said, his biggest problem is trying to focus on where he needs to send his energy, and that’s about it. We jumped and there’s a little bit where we talk about the numbers. But other than that, it’s mostly him trying to decide where to direct where he needs to go.

Mindy:
Yes. I really think that he has a lot of potential, and I am excited to see which option he chooses. Now, I have to tell you what my attorney makes me say. The contents of this podcast are informational in nature and are not legal or tax advice, and neither Kyle nor I, nor BiggerPockets is engaged in the provision of legal tax or any other advice. That’s right. I said neither Kyle nor I. You should seek your own advice from professional advisors, including lawyers and accountants regarding the legal tax and financial implications of any financial decision you contemplate. And yes, I introduced him as my CFP co-host, but Kyle, please tell everybody how you are not their CFP.

Kyle:
That’s correct. I am a CFP. I do or have done this professionally for a living. But I am not your CFP and I am not our guest CFP. I don’t know your situation in detail or our guest situation in detail. But, hopefully, we’re just offering some good ideas that people can run with in this show, not specific ones or specific advice.

Mindy:
Yes. The whole purpose of the Finance Friday Episode is just to give you a different perspective because, sometimes when you’re in the middle of a financial problem or a financial situation, it’s hard to see any other ideas but the one that you have focused on. So that’s why we created Finance Friday to give you an idea of what we would do if we were in your situation.
We have a new segment here, Kyle, I’m not sure if you’ve heard, the Money Moment where we share a money hack, tip, or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today’s Money Moment is are you looking to save money on prescriptions? Check out your local Costco. Not only does Costco have some of the lowest prescription prices in the United States, but you don’t even need a to purchase a Costco membership to reap these low prescription prices. You can just walk right in and get your own prescription filled at the Costco Pharmacy. It’s great.
Today’s guest is a police officer with high earning potential and side hustle as a personal trainer. Personal finance wasn’t a concern for him until roughly two years ago. And now, he’s looking to set himself up to retire at age 44. Today, we’re going to talk about car payments, site businesses, and real estate investing while pursuing financial independence. Joe, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast.

Joe:
Hi, Mindy. How are you? I am super pumped to be on here today. I’ve been listening to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast for some time now, almost over, I’d say, two years. So super pumped to actually have the opportunity to get on here today.

Mindy:
I’m super pumped to have you. We’re going to pump you up. Do you remember that one? You’re too young. Kyle, do you remember that one?

Kyle:
A little bit. A little bit.

Mindy:
Come on, guys. Who else was around in the ’90s? Nobody. Nobody.

Joe:
Yeah. I was about to say definitely past my time. I don’t even think I was born yet.

Mindy:
You probably weren’t because you are right now 25. That’s okay though. It’s a great-ish Saturday Night Live skit from when they really weren’t all that funny. So, okay, enough about that. Let’s go back to you, and let’s look at your money story, your money finances. Let’s look at your breakdown. We’ve got a salary of 4,346 per month that is broken down into 2,485 gross from your side income and 4,600 gross from your police department income. Your expenses, which I will get into, we’ve got a truck payment of $448, phone bill $90, rent 800, groceries 300, monthly car wash expense $25. It rains, right? That’s a free carwash, but it’s only 25 bucks a month.
But still, I can’t remember the last time I washed my car. Dining, food, beverages, $384. Honestly, that’s not bad for somebody who’s into fitness. I’m sure you have to eat a lot of protein. 384 a month, I think that’s doing pretty good. Gas $245 a month. Amazon Prime, I love that you have that in your list just to keep track of the fact that, that is an expense, 1628. Entertainment $160 a month. Car insurance 1100 bi-annually. So that’s 2200 a year. I thought that sounded a little bit high. But then Kailyn, our producer, reassured us that, nope, that’s pretty much in line with what she pays to.

Joe:
Especially in New York State. Especially in New York state, it’s definitely a little bit higher.

Mindy:
So we’ve got a total of 2,682 going out on 4,300 coming in. I think that’s a nice delta. Now, here’s where we have online business expenses that are separated out on my document. I want to make sure they’re separated out in your two different bank accounts. If you don’t have them, you should. We’ve got a VA service for $600 a month. TrueCoach Client Training app, $59 a month. Loom recording $10 a month. Amazon expenses, personal supplements, $79 a month. I want to know if those personal supplements are for you or those really a business expense that is something for your CPA to talk to you about.
But just make sure that you are separating out business with business and personal with personal. We’ve got a couple of other things. Your LA Fitness membership, I think, would absolutely qualify as a business expense. Meal Plan app, probably a business expense. And then Captions Pro, so a total of $800 for business expenses.
That seems good except for that $600 VA service that we’re going to definitely talk about. Investments total $41,000 at age 25, I think, that’s awesome. I think there’s a lot of 25 year olds who don’t have anything in the investment department.
We have a pension. We have a high yield savings account. We have a post-tax brokerage account, a Roth IRA and a 457 deferred comp plan. Oh, Kyle, make a note. There’s a 457 plan here that’s available. I love the 457 plan. I don’t have any access to it. So I’m jealous. All right. Debt, credit card zero, hooray. And car loan, $21,216. I’m not going to give you a hooray for that. Although it is only 2.99%, it is still a car loan, and you are on payment number five of 60.

Joe:
Yup. Just bought it, unfortunately. In my defense, ill get to why I did what I did. But I’ll save that for a little later.

Mindy:
Kyle, didn’t he say he’s been listening to the show for two years?

Kyle:
He did. Yeah.

Mindy:
He did. And then, he still just bought a car. Okay.

Kyle:
Well, I’m excited to hear about… We’ll hear about it.

Mindy:
Okay. Your goal is to retire at age 44 with a 50% pension and income from other investments. I think your investment mix is great. You’re not just focusing on retirement. You’re not just focusing on pre-tax. You’ve got a nice mix around there. And I mean at $41,000 at age 25, there’s few 25 year olds that have multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars. So I think you’re doing great on that front. Let’s look at your money story. How’d you get here?

Joe:
All right. Well, so first and foremost, I grew up in a middle class family. My parents, they grinded their whole life. My dad was a mortgage broker for, I’d probably say, over 25 years. My mom was a teacher. She just retired last year. So super happy for her to enjoy retirement.
But I grew up in a middle class family. They gave me everything that I needed and more super, super grateful for that. However, just like I listened to on this podcast a lot, there’s certain things that I didn’t learn when I grew up as far as focusing on finances.
I wish I focused on them a little bit earlier than I started to. I started working when I was 16, 17 years old. However, I never really saved. Anything I made, I spent. I had a good time in college to say the least.
And then as I grew up a little bit older, I started my fitness business at the age of 22. Had an in-person business first. And then COVID hit, forced me to close my doors. And then, I moved everything online. Kind of a blessing in disguise because I did start crushing the online space.
I had over 60 clients at one point, paying me over 350 a month. So I was crushing it for a while. I will just be blatantly honest with you, I traveled everywhere, went to Hawaii. I lived it up. And now when I look back at it, and that’s only two, three years ago, I kind of wish that I maybe lived just a little bit more frugal. And I probably would be in a way better financial position than I currently am. However, that’s why I’m here and just to learn from my mistakes and just to continue moving forward.

Mindy:
Okay. Great. Yeah. And you discovered this at 25. You didn’t discover this at 55 or much later. So don’t beat yourself up too much. But yes, I think you had a really good point. If I would’ve just lived a little more frugally, I would be in a different position. We’re not here to beat you up about past.

Kyle:
One of the best things you can do when you’re young is actually take a little bit more financial risk early on. Even if you mess up, to learn those lessons early is a big deal. And sometimes, those early financial risks turn into something big. That’s something that being too conservative too early in your life when you can recover, can kind of hurt you in the long run. So, yeah, don’t beat yourself up. Those lessons will serve you well in the long run.

Joe:
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean there was a point in time where, listen, I was 23 making nearly almost 30 grand a month. And there was a time where I was like, “This is more money than I could ever even imagine.” And if I just had a little… And this was before I actually got into the BiggerPockets Money community. This is before I even knew what FIRE was. And I do wish…. I mean, obviously, I’m not here to beat myself up the whole episode. But there is just a little bit of part of me where if I just saved even a little bit more or fueled investments a little bit earlier with all the money that was coming in, I definitely probably would be in a little bit of a different position currently.
However, I do know what it takes now to build a business. I do know how to get there. It’s just a matter of trying to properly manage my time while still having a social life because now, I’m working full-time as a police officer. So it’s a little bit of a different… It’s not like I have an insane amount of free time that I did just being an entrepreneur, if that makes sense.

Mindy:
What were you doing that you were making $30,000 a month?

Joe:
So I still have it, but I had to close my doors for the online coaching business. So hold on. Let me back this up a little bit just so you guys understand a little bit more history.
So in September… or sorry, October of 2021, that’s when I got into the police academy. Given probably, I’d say, maybe two months into the police academy, my girlfriend actually got diagnosed with Hodgkin’s lymphoma cancer, and that obviously rocked my world.
Obviously, it was a very hard time while being in the academy getting treated like a two-year-old. So I had the business to a point where I was trying to sustain having the business while being in the academy. And it was just too much pressure for me to try to continue the business and then also having to take care of her outside of any time that I had outside of the academy.
So that’s kind of why I’m starting from scratch because I really did fold my online business completely for almost nearly two years. And now, I’m really starting to pick it back up. So that’s a little bit of backstory as to why I couldn’t sustain it to where it was.
But as far as the business model goes, it’s just an online coaching business where I have a Facebook community similar to the group that you guys have where I had around 60 clients in there with training guides where I had them on a meal plan. I had them on a customized training program. And really just I had a lot of accountability.
So I would do weekly check-ins, and that’s what that Loom Recording software is for. I would send them a check-in form every week. I’d get back to them with a video check-in going over their week to see how they did, if there needs any update to macros, meal plan, training plan, et cetera.
So it was more of a customized feel, and I never would’ve even imagined to think to charge what I did if I didn’t hire a business coach. So I did hire a business coach. And I know you’re not too crazy about those if I remember, right. But I did hire a business coach. And it did help me a lot. It helped me progress into I know my value, I know what I can give people. And that’s why I started to charge what I did. And it just got to where it was.

Mindy:
I don’t mind a business coach if they’re providing value. There’s a lot of people out there that are like, “I’ll be your business coach.” Well, what are you going to teach me? I would be a terrible business coach, but I can charge you $10,000 a month to tell you, “Do it.”
I mean, that’s not helpful. That’s the kind of business coach I don’t want you to hire. But this one clearly worked, and that’s great. So what is stopping you from going back to those… Did you say there were 60 people? What is stopping you from going back to those 60 people and trying to reconnect with them?

Joe:
Nothing really. Like I said, I just started this business back up around, I’d say, three months ago because the first month I didn’t really have a VA as far as I know, we’re going to talk about that in a little bit. But I didn’t really have a VA. Now, I’m hiring one again.
There’s nothing stopping me. I just haven’t really went back to a lot of those leads or those past clients. So there’s still a broad amount of exposure for me to grow and get back to that point. It’s just, I know for a fact, going to take time, number one. And number two, with now having a full-time job with the stress of being a police officer, I have to kind of weigh out my options.
It’s like, “Do I really want to get back to the point of making that money? Is it that important?” Yeah, I would love to increase the income, but at what expense? I mean I was working nonstop all day. Even though it was an online thing, it’s just constant clients reaching out to me all day every day. And to be fairly honest with you guys, I just simply don’t have that time if I’m on a domestic call or whatever. I mean people are reaching out to me on my phone I can’t exactly answer. So hopefully, that makes sense.

Kyle:
Yeah. This is super good information. I’d like to kind of back us up just a little bit, and I want to jump forward in time to your goal that you gave us is to retire at 44 with a 50% pension. We can kind of talk about what that might mean.
But the way you’re talking about this fitness business and then you have a full-time job as a police officer, so let’s say, you hit FIRE at 44. Are you a police officer or are you a fitness coach or are you both, or what’s the ideal life look at that point because you’ve got some good things going on here.
You had a really good business that was built here. You maybe went too far, too fast in it, but a lot of good businesses that build that way, that’s what happens. And you kind of have an opportunity to rebuild it the way you want to. But now, you also have this good career with potentially a good pension. I don’t know what the pensions look like for sure in New York State. In any state, they’re not what they used to be. So why 44 and what does life look like at 44? And that might help us dive into more of the direction that you should be going now.

Joe:
Yeah. Totally get it. So the reason why I’m saying 44 is I can only retire in 20 years. That’s at 20-year police mark. So I got on at 24. That’s my goal, is to retire as early as I possibly can to get out of law enforcement.
As much as I love the job, I mean it’s a great job. I’m not in the city by any means, so it’s not NYPD or anything like that. It’s actually a really good job. I love it. I have a great time out there meeting a lot of good people. However, with that being said, my end goal is to retire at 44 with the sole purpose of raising a family, enjoying my time with my kids when I do have kids.
And I do think will training be there? I think training and health and fitness is just a part of me that will never go away. Do I think I’m going to be doing personal training to the magnitude at 44? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t really have a plan in action of if I want to sustain a fitness business that long. But at the end of the day, I just really want to kind of transition out of law enforcement as early as I possibly can in 20 years so I’m able to enjoy time with friends and family and pursue any other things that I want to pursue in life, if that makes sense.

Kyle:
Yeah. That’s really good. Is there any potential for part-time when you transition out of the police department or is it pretty much you got, okay, yeah, you can do some part-time as you transition out if you needed?

Joe:
No. You can’t do part-time as a police officer. Sorry. I misunderstood that. But I could 100% do part-time work anywhere else. So whatever that is.
Now, the thing that I kind of see myself doing is real estate. That’s kind of why I want really want to pick your brains about that today because that is something that’s I’m really getting interested in. As far as the BiggerPockets community, I’m sure you get a lot of people that come on here and say that they’re interested in real estate. I’m brand new to this. However, in 20 years from now, I want to be able to have a portfolio to where that could kind of be my part-time job, if that makes sense.

Mindy:
So I am going to give you a little bit of advice because that’s what I do, and a homework assignment. Read up on the landlord-tenant laws in the state of New Jersey because New Jersey is typically less expensive than New York State. But they have some pretty strict laws such as, and I’m not investing in New Jersey because I read this once, and I was like, “Woohoo, no,” you can’t not renew a lease.
So let’s say, Joe, you rent to Kyle and he just throws rager parties all the time, and you don’t want to renew his lease, but he hasn’t… He pays his rent on time and he’s, in general, not violating the lease. He’s just really annoying everybody around him. You can’t tell him, “Sorry, Kyle, I’m not going to renew your lease.” You have to continue renting to him for as long as he wants to rent or until he breaks the lease.
Now again, I’m not living there or investing there. I’m going to invite you to do some homework on this and make sure that the landlord-tenant laws in the state of New Jersey are something that you wish to operate within. Being a cop, you kind of have to follow the laws. They frown on that, I’ve heard.
However, your neighboring state, Pennsylvania, has better laws that are more landlord friendly. So I would invite you to also do homework on those laws before you buy rental properties and make sure you’re investing in a state that actually has your best interest in mind.

Joe:
When do you think that I should be or could be ready to get into the real estate game? I know from a financial standpoint, I just don’t want to make the wrong decision too early. So being only 25 with my current situation with my rent right now and what I have, it’s great. So do I kind of ride that out for a little bit and just fuel retirement accounts, save at the rate that I’m saving, and then get into real estate at a future date? That’s kind of my question.

Kyle:
That’s a tough question. If I go back to my own journey, I always think I wish I would’ve started earlier. And if you’ll talk to just about anybody, they’ll tell you the same thing. That doesn’t mean that you should jump in this year. But every year that you wait is a year that you can’t house hack or buy a house, live in it for a year, buy another one, live in it for a year, buy another one, live in it for a year.
But again, in your situation, if you do the research that Mindy’s talking about and you decide you don’t want to invest in your home state, which can be a viable route… I’m in Oregon. And I don’t invest in Oregon. And it’s just because it’s very heavy tenant. It’s not as fair. I invest in fair states where what Mindy’s talking about. I think the tenants have very… They definitely have rights, and there are bad landlords out there. But it needs to be a fair system for both sides.
So if that’s where you come out and you decide to start the real estate journey of investing that way, like buying something out of state, then, that means you need to have a little bit more of a war chest. You need to have a little bit more in savings for a bigger down payment because it’s an investment property, first off. You’re not moving into it with a low down payment as a house hack or just living there and then turning it after a year into a rental and continuing that route.
So that might change your strategy a little bit. And that’s not a bad strategy at all to build up a solid savings account for down payment and then expenses too when the first tenant moves out in three months and they trash the place and you got to put three grand into it to get the next tenant in as soon as possible. I’m not saying that’s ever happened to me ever. But you just have to be ready for those unexpected things.
So I think that would be you could go either way. The other thing I wanted to jump back to is we’re talking about this pension. You’re working 20 years for the police department. And I want to make sure that we’re not making any assumptions. You want to leave your options open as much as possible. You want to make sure you don’t assume that working 20 years at the police department is the best route for you. It could be. And 20 years isn’t that long. But you might get to year 10 and be like, “It’s long. There’s 10 more years.”
So I don’t know what the 50% pension means. Can you explain that a little bit more? And then, I would also caution you to make sure as the time goes on that you’re always going to all those pension meetings that they have, that you’re paying attention to legislation. Anything that they’re changing in the pension system is going to affect you heavily.
And for me, personally, I don’t like having that much out of my control. It can be a really awesome thing, but if you can bring some more things into your control, including the real estate investing and some of your other investment accounts too. But you just got to keep an eye on that.
And thankfully, you’re in an industry that the pensions are protected more heavily probably than a lot of other public services, but not as much still. There’s tax dollars that want to be pulled for other places. It’s just the way the world works. But, yeah, so the 50% pension, what does that mean? Does that mean because you’re taking it early, it’s lower because you’re not waiting as long or what does that-

Joe:
Correct. So essentially, just a little… Basically, how it works in New York with the PFRS system, which is Police and Fire Retirement System, the way that the pensions work is it used to be off your three… I think it’s your last final three years together, your final average salary. But now, it’s your five, your last five years final average salary.
And basically, what it goes off of is 50% off that, and we get capped at overtime. So we’re only allowed to put in 17% of overtime per year toward that final average salary, if that makes sense. So, let’s say, which in the broad spectrum of things, I’ll probably end up being around anywhere from 215 to 230 grand by the time I retire, average salary from year 16 to year 20. That’s just with all of our special pay included, everything.
So we do have a very good contract as far as police goes because a lot of people, you may think, “That’s absolutely insane.” But we just do have a very good contract, which one of the reasons why I chose to go with this department.
So with that being said, let’s say, I have a $215,000 average salary last five years. I make 50% of that for life, no state income tax. We do get federally taxed. But everything else, we don’t get taxed. But we do also, I think now, it’s starting to change to where we’re going to have to pay into our health benefits still. The people that are retiring now in the tier two, because I’m tier six, tier two doesn’t have to pay. And they also don’t get a cap on overtime. So one of my dad’s friends just retire with a pension of 190 grand a year.
We’re not going to get that, which is crazy because the inflation is going to get more expensive obviously. And then, we’re getting the crap end of the stick to say the least. But at least, we’re still able to have somewhat of quote-unquote “security.” I have that mindset, same as you, Kyle, where this is why I’m here today. Definitely, it’s great to have a pension. It’s great to have that at the 20-year mark.
But if I can get to a point in say 12, 13 years where I’m like, “Wow, I’m crushing it in real estate. I have my retirement accounts fueled, my fiance is… Well, my future fiance is going to be a physician assistant, so she’ll be making good money,” and I just want to make sure that I don’t just think about that pension at the end goal, if that makes sense.

Kyle:
Do you know if it has an inflation adjustment, the pension each year?

Joe:
I don’t know for a fact.

Kyle:
That’d be something to check on. That’s something that they’ve started to take away from some of the pensions, and that will really eat-

Joe:
I don’t know for a fact. But what I can say though is our base salary now, which I believe I sent you guys, I’m not sure if you have it, but our base salary at a year 11 and a half, so takes a while to get to that top pay. But right now, the base salary is $161,693. And that’s just base salary. That’s not another 50 grand on top of it that we’re getting from all of our rotational pay, our vacation pay, our sick pay.
However, that contract is up in ’24, 2024, so next year. And our PBA is trying to get higher pay because the city just got a good contract. So now, they’re hedging that for our county. I don’t know where the pay is going to be at. But I know that they try to do their absolute best to try and hedge inflation by increasing salary a little bit each contract.

Mindy:
Okay. So your 50% pension will be approximately $9,000 a month. And a few moments ago, you said that you were making $30,000 a month with personal training. So I don’t know that many real estate investors who make $30,000 a month. What was your time commitment just to the personal training to make that 30,000 a month?

Joe:
That’s the thing. Being only 22, 23, I didn’t really have a business mindset of, “Okay, this is how many hours I’m working a week.” Kind of just went after it. And I will be blatantly honest with you, guys. Obviously, this isn’t a quote-unquote “relationship podcast.” But it hurt my relationship to a certain extent.
I was probably working 90 to 100 hours a week plus if not more, just constantly on my phone answering people constantly. However, now that I have a little bit more of that mindset and awareness, even if I go all in on the personal, on that side hustle, and I do get back to a point of that which I would love to, I definitely will have a little bit more of a balance just because that’s not important to me anymore. Listen, I know I’m young, and I’m not afraid to work. I’m not afraid to put in the hours.
But there’s a point in time where I still want to be able to enjoy my life and traveling. I’m in Hawaii. I didn’t even really experience Hawaii because I’m working 120 hours a week, and I’m spending all the money to be there, and I barely did anything. There’s a trade-off there where the time aspect was a little bit too much. And in the midterm, that’s why I went toward the police because I kind of wanted a set schedule. And now in my head, I’m like, “Did I need to?” Probably not. But I will say I enjoy the job.

Mindy:
Okay. Well I’m 50 and I’m just discovering this whole don’t work every minute of every day thing. So you’re ahead of me. Congratulations. I think it’s really important to enjoy your life. You’re only here once. You don’t get to 90 and then come back again unless you believe in reincarnation. And good for you. I don’t. So I’m just going to go with my original statement that you don’t get another chance. So enjoy it while you’re here.
And I wish I would’ve learned this lesson than 25 years ago. So I think another great homework assignment for you is to, outside of this show, just think back to what services you were providing, what you were doing when you were on your phone all the time and what you could pull back, what you could still offer, what you could pull back from that would make it a more normal job, a more normal side hustle. What could you outsource?
Somebody always wants to talk on the phone, great. Hire an assistant to talk on the phone. Somebody always needs an email responded to. Well, can you respond between eight and 8:30 in the morning? Does it always have to be instant? Does it always have to be you? What services can you provide that people found a lot of value in? And what were you offering that if you pulled back nobody would miss? Because when I think of online personal training, I think of you’re going to say, “Okay, here’s your workout. Here’s your workout for the day, or here’s three workouts for the day.” Great. That doesn’t take you all day long. And that’s the kind of thing you can kind of cycle through. I mean, even if you created a brand new one, that’s 365. And then, you start reusing them, but you’re probably not going to-

Joe:
Right.

Mindy:
… do 365 whole different ones.

Joe:
There’s definitely different business models in my head that I went through as far as the personal training aspect goes. I do think that if I start going full force with this again, I don’t know if I can maintain the high ticket end as far as 350, $400 a month that I was charging because it really does take a lot of time and a lot of attention.
Each person is expecting a lot of attention. With that being said, if I did go down that route and I didn’t go down, which I like the high ticket personal training atmosphere, just because I know that I’m getting you the results. The low ticket atmosphere, I truly feel like I’m scamming you. And I’ve had that kind of feeling before where if I’ve gave $100 BS program and then I never talk to the person again. Now, I feel like I’m just taking the $100. And now, I’m not actually giving you a service that you deserve, right?
So that’s as far as that why I went down the high ticket route. However, it consumed me. It was all the time constantly being on these people. So I do think if I go down this route again and I get back to the point where I I was, like you said, I would have to take a look at, okay, well how much expenses can I afford, and what people can I hire and the team that I can build around me because there’s just no way that I could do it myself with a full-time job, if that makes sense.

Mindy:
Right. But $30,000 a month hires a lot of people-

Joe:
Correct.

Mindy:
… and still leaves room for profit. One person can check in every morning. Michelle, your job is to email every one of these people or text them every single morning, “How are you doing?” Here’s the seven things that I want you to say to them in a rotating basis. Boom. Now you don’t have to check in with them in the morning.
And if they’ve got a specific question, she can reach out to you. But now, you’re responding to three questions instead of 300 questions, or you would, of course, know your business more than I would. But look at what worked, what didn’t. If you still have contact information for these people, offer them a free month or a free six months or whatever works to really pick their brain and see what they found value and what they didn’t and what they would come back for versus what they wouldn’t. I mean, $30,000 a month, that’s a huge carrot that I think would be worth exploring.

Kyle:
There’s some potential here that you could do some pretty cool things. And I think you’ve made some mistakes as far as overworking. But everybody does that, and you’ve done it early. You could read some books and solve that really quick like some of the things that Mindy talked about, just delegation.
These are not rocket science things. They’re in a thousand books. You pick one good author, like, Michael Hyatt is someone who does a coaching program. But he’s written a whole bunch of books. You pick, read five of his books. And you change how you would run a business. There’s some things here that I think rather than trying to figure out how do we cut expenses or how do I save a little bit more, you’ve got some big potential where you could make 30,000 a year even on the side of your police job.
I actually think you could do that within the next year or two if you delegate well. I think that’s something that you could have it both ways. And you were talking earlier about your potential goal of having time for family and things like that. If you can build those two options at the same time in a sustainable way with intentionality to where you’re not getting burnt out under both of them, and it would take some work, you have to revisit. Do some planning. Review the business. Make sure you’re not getting too stretched out.
But in 10 years, you might have a big decision to make to definitely jump away and even faster than that too. Jump away from the police department or even maybe sell the personal training business depending on what you made it to. But that opens up some options.
I’m trying to think of 44-year-old Joe and what 23, 24-year-old Joe was doing, and, man, what he could do in the next 20 years. And just think about that. I want to make sure you’re not thinking too small. I sense in here that you could think pretty big and do some pretty cool stuff. So yeah, the numbers are important, but don’t get too stuck in the little numbers when there’s these big opportunities and you’re young, and you’ve got some good ambition that you could run with.

Joe:
Absolutely. Yeah. I truly appreciate that. And it’s funny because after joining the police department, and I’m not exactly thinking like this anymore, but there was a certain period of time where I was like, “All right. I’m set.” I have this job. Now, I have a steady income and this… And then, I’m like, “What am I doing?” I do know that I have room for growth.
And like you said, if I could get out before the 20-year mark and it makes sense logically, then, I’ll definitely do that. And ultimately, that would be a great goal to get myself back on that entrepreneurial mindset as far as taking risks and growing income. And I know you said something about we haven’t really talked too much about increasing the savings rate and being more frugal. And it’s funny you say that because, literally, probably about two hours before this podcast, I’m thinking to myself. I’m like, “I know I could cut expenses. I know I can, but I also know that I could just grow my income more.” I know that that’s more of a goal of mine. Instead of just staying in a job and just trying to nickel and dime and save and save, well, I can just grow my income a little bit more and then I won’t have to think like that, if that makes sense.

Kyle:
Totally. And Scott Trench, he’s on here usually. He talks often about one of the best ways to build wealth is a business. It’s one of the best ways to build it. And it’s not about building wealth, so you just have a whole bunch of money. Well, I guess for some people, it is maybe. But it’s that security. And not many people are as capable or even have the desire to build a business. It’s just not a part of who they are. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
But then, there’s some people that it kind of comes naturally, and it’s kind of fun, and it’s enjoyable. And I feel like that’s kind of you. And I wouldn’t throw that away. It doesn’t mean you have to go that route. You can go different routes. But I mean there’s some potential there. And not everyone has it.
And you never know. Life will throw things your way, which you’ve already found out with your girlfriend. You don’t know what five years from now life will look like. You might need to be done with your current job or you might need to be done with personal training. Maybe, there’s an injury or something that you have no idea.
And that’s the cool thing about the FIRE Movement, is that it’s not necessarily about the retire early. It’s making the decisions now to be able to pivot if you need to. And that’s huge because life hits you. And if you’re ready to pivot, it’s awesome because that stress of the money piece is not there. You can then go to something else. There’s already enough stress because of this life thing that happened to you, but at least money isn’t a part of it. So the more things you can do now to build towards that, the better it’ll be.

Joe:
Absolutely.

Mindy:
This is BiggerPockets, but I like the personal training route almost more than the real estate route because of where you live, because it’s so expensive, because of the landlord-tenant laws in the states that are closest to you, and because the personal training thing is proven, and it is so, I don’t want to say, easy, but I see an easy way to delegate a lot of the time suck aspects of it to others so that you’re still making… I mean, oh, you’re not making 30,000. You’re only making 15,000 to do basically nothing. Not that you’re not doing anything, but you’ve delegated so much. I mean, I would take 15,000 doing nothing all day long versus, I don’t know if you know this, but sometimes cops get shot at.

Joe:
Well, yeah, that’s definitely a time efficient thing. I definitely do think that’s definitely more the route. There’s definitely a little bit a part of me where it’s like… And it’s a scarcity thing of getting back to that point. I think I could do it. I know I can actually. It’s just a matter of how much time and effort that’s going to take. And I’m not really scared of that. It’s just a matter of, okay, how can I manage my time?
And I know I’ve said this already, but it’s like how can I manage my time now that I have a full-time job? It was not like that beforehand. And then, there’s also a part of me that it’s like… I know you said you like it better than real estate, but there’s still a part of me that I still want some type of portfolio because I do know the power of real estate, and I do know what it could do for you.
So I don’t want to just have all my marbles in the personal training business because it’s very volatile, extremely volatile. What I mean by that is I could wake up the next morning and I can go from 60 clients to 30 because who knows, X, Y, Z. And now, I have half of my income split in half. So that is something to think about in my head as well for that even… And that’s another thing, I think, as to why I was working so damn much back then because I was like, “I can’t lose these clients.” So there’s a lot of volatility there, which is why I do want to have some form of portfolio to support my family long term.

Mindy:
And it’s not an either or. It is, you can do a little bit here and then move it, make some money in personal training. And then, I mean, $30,000 a month is the number that I’m stuck on because you threw that out there so casually. Oh, I just make 30,000 a month. That’s no big deal.

Joe:
And the reason is because I was literally… I did a mastermind with that business coach. I was a small shark in the mastermind. I mean there was a couple trainers from Canada, a couple trainers from California that were making, I mean, over 150 grand a month in coaching. So it’s doable. So it’s like when I say 30, it’s not like I take it with a grain of salt. Of course, I knew I was doing very well for my age extremely well, but I knew that I was kind of a small shark in a big tank there because there was people that were my age, 24, 25 making five times the amount I was.

Mindy:
So unsuccessful personal trainer makes $30,000 a month. So that tells me that there’s room to improve and expand and grow this business.

Kyle:
Yeah, I agree 100%. I think a lot of times, you’ll hear people say, “I want to start this business. I have this idea. I want to do this.” And it’s like, “Oh, that’s cool.” Don’t quit your job. Stay at your job. You haven’t proven anything.
The difference in your situation is you’ve already done it. And that makes a big difference. If you ever watch Shark Tank, one of the things they do is like, “Oh, this is a cool idea.” How much have you sold? Have you done anything yet? Ideas are great. But until you implement it, it doesn’t mean very much.

Mindy:
If having a business that generates $100,000 a month in a $500,000 a house market means that you can buy a new house for cash every five months.

Joe:
Yeah.

Mindy:
Your police job while necessary and important isn’t generating that kind of cash and won’t ever.

Joe:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, exactly. It’s crazy because having this conversation… I had the same conversation with my actual business coach two years. Now, he’s crushing it. I haven’t talked to him in a while. But when I was making that type of money, he kept telling me, “Why are you going to go do the police?” Why? Why is it important to you?
And my main answer was, “I always wanted to be a police officer,” which is 100% true. And there’s value to that. And then, another thing in my head that I didn’t really tell him was the security aspect of having that security, having that pension down the line, having those benefits, not having to pay out of pocket for these big expense benefits like health insurance and stuff like that.
So there’s pros and cons to it. But I do know that the big con is the fact that I wish I had the knowledge that I do now as far as changing careers and going to the police. As much as I love it, I do know that it’s maybe hindering my aspect or maybe hindering my growth as far as in other areas. And like Kyle said and like you said, Mindy, I could definitely do them all at once. I just have to figure out how to allocate that.

Mindy:
Yeah. I think sitting down and really taking your time, we’re not going to be able to do this in one hour. But sitting down and taking time to figure out what you can offer and what amount of your time it takes and what can be delegated out, I think you’ll find some clear avenues to easy wins and some other opportunities that may require partnerships. There are other 22-year-old personal trainers out there who would love the opportunity to partner with Joe and be out there on your team and doing this because they don’t have the skills to start their own business or the bravery to start their own business. It’s scary to start it.

Kyle:
Totally agree.

Mindy:
Awesome. Well, Joe, what is the name of this personal training business that you have?

Joe:
It’s just my name. So JG Fitness. JG Fitness. But you could find me on Instagram @joegranierifit. If you can spell my last name, it’s G-R-A-N-I-E-R-I.

Mindy:
Awesome. And we will link to that in our show notes today. Joe, this was a super fun talk because you have a hard choice. Which one of these fabulous options do I choose? Which one of all of these fabulous options? I don’t see a bad option for you. I see three really great choices, real estate, police department, and fitness training, plus whatever things come out of that after. I mean, you’re only 25. Look you’ve got three great options at age 25. I can’t wait to see what you do when you’re 30.

Joe:
Appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Thank you for the opportunity. I really, really appreciate it.

Mindy:
Yeah. Thank you for your time today, Joe. And we’ll talk to you soon. All right, Kyle, that was Joe and his fabulous set of problems. What did you think of the show?

Kyle:
Oh man, I’m excited for the guy. I mean, he just has a lot going for him. It was great to talk to him, and I just think he has such good problems. He built this business, kind of overdid it, got in over his head from a busyness standpoint, but learned a lot of good lessons. He’s gone through a police academy. He’s at a police department. He just has a lot going for him, and I’m excited to see where he is going to be in five or seven years from now, honestly.

Mindy:
Yeah. I am too. I think that having so many different great options, it’s great for him. It’s makes our job a little bit more difficult. Which one would I choose of these fabulous decisions? Sometimes, it’s really easy. Wow, I wouldn’t do that at all. I’d do the other thing. It’s so easy to make this decision because you’re choosing between an awesome option or an okay option and a terrible option. But he’s got three really great ones. So I think I would almost lean to… Not almost. I would absolutely lean towards the personal training part because just the money. I mean, you could do that. You could set yourself up for life by just saving everything that comes in, and then go focus on something else.

Kyle:
100%. I lean heavy towards the business thing too, but for the money, for sure. But I prioritize flexibility in my life just about above anything else when it comes to professional stuff. And if you build your own business, that’s one of the best ways you can ensure that your flexibility is at a level that you want it to be at.
You work as many hours as you want, when you want, as long as you want during a certain season of your life, less during a different season of your life. This affords you that. When you’re working for somebody else, not so much so. That’s the reason I would direct him in that. He’s young. You can build a business to be ready and built and look what you want it to look like when you have kids, when you have a family or other responsibilities, it’s just a great option.

Mindy:
Flexibility is a wonderful F word. I’m glad you brought it up. And if we’re talking about inflexible jobs, I think the police officer is about as inflexible as you get because you are not a… Nobody schedules a domestic disturbance. Oh, are you guys not available right now? I’ll call back. Accidents happen when they happen. You can’t get in a car accident and be like, “Oh, nevermind. I’ll stop bleeding, and I’ll just have you come back later.” That’s literally the least flexible job there is. So not that I am encouraging him to leave the police department. He just graduated from the police academy, but things to think about, for sure.

Kyle:
Yeah. It’s a great launching point. He’s got a full-time job where he can launch from and while he’s trying to build something else, if that’s what he wants to do.

Mindy:
Yeah. Definitely stable. There is no shortage of need. He will always have hours and overtime too. All right, Kyle. Should we get out of here?

Kyle:
Let’s do it.

Mindy:
That wraps up this episode of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. He is Kyle Mast, filling in for the missing Scott Trench, vacationing Scott Trench. I don’t even know where he is. And I am Mindy Jensen saying, “Chop chop, lollipop.”

Speaker 4:
If you enjoyed today’s episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you’re looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at youtube.com/biggerpocketsmoney.

Mindy:
BiggerPockets money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kailyn Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the BiggerPockets team for making this show possible.